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"NO BULLSH*T & I will tell you the hard fact
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THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
“Every technology age, the only thing that never gets old is connecting with people.”
Hey everyone, how’s everybody doing? This is Arthur Tan and you’re listening to the VC Connect podcast; the show to gets in-depth and unlocks the inner thoughts of the renowned venture capitalists across ASEAN and APAC region.
If you’re a founder that’s currently exercising capital raising for a business or all you need to know about venture capital and capital raising, this is absolutely the right show for you to tune in on every episode. & if you have yet to follow our Twitter account and the rest of our social media credentials on Facebook Instagram, & LinkedIn, do click on the button to follow, right now. Wherever you are in this universe, thank you so much for joining us for this inaugural podcast series, kicking off every fortnightly for half an hour in every episode.
Now my dear friends, more founders than ever are building great projects in this web3 space, disrupting space with out of the wood ideas and raising tons of money. And on this show, I sit down with this incredibly smart venture capitalist across these regions to pluck the brain juice to discuss the ideas, strategies and opportunities that they’re taking advantage and practicing of soul the rest of us able to do the same as well.
And kicking off tonight’s show is none other than my venture capitalist buddy, all the way in Indonesia, Jakarta. Ladies and gents, please put your hands together for Eddy Christian Ng on “NO BULLSH*T PITCH.
Such a great introduction!
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
I’ll try to I’ll try to. The whole day I was just trying to immerse myself as like Jay Shetty. I hope that they really didn’t disappoint you then.
SPECIAL GUEST: EDDY CHRISTIAN NG, Partner of OFU Ventures
That was a good one man, that was awesome. I was like surprise.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Thanks so much. Well, it’s good to be connecting via virtually after we get connected over back in Bali. So anyway, it is really an honor to have you here.
Happy to be here & be invited to be the first guest.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Absolutely. Thank you so much for just saying YES; I mean just for your information for the rest of everybody, when I invited Eddy, he said Yes in a heartbeat. So honestly, I can never be more grateful for this then. Thank you so much for this. Yup, so I guess let’s just dive in, I mean Eddy could you give the audiences some background checked about yourself, making sure that inside is looking as good as outside as well.
SPECIAL GUEST: EDDY CHRISTIAN NG, Partner of OFU Ventures
Alright, again my name is Eddy. My background is I grew up in Jakarta, Indonesia. I moved to Vancouver, Canada and lived there for 10 years for college and also working as a banker. Then I think about like 9 years ago, I moved back to Indonesia. The reason why I’m moving back was I’m looking for opportunity. I think Asia is just starting at that time. I remember like the tech boom when I moved back was just starting with, you know, Tokopedia back in the days, not even…. I think they just close their first 100 million funding. I think one of the biggest or I can say the biggest one in Indonesia at that time, right. So that was the time when I moved back to Indonesia. I started again my career as a banker. At that time, I spent about two years in Indonesia doing the banking work and at some point, I get bored, I get bored with what I do.
So fast forward 2015, I co-founded my first startups, that was selling furniture online so I don’t know about how Malaysia look alike, but there’s one in Singapore HipVan if you guys know about it; Urban ladder in India; like Wayfair in the US; something like that for selling furniture, home living product online and providing also services for interior design because Indonesian love to have sort of like a customized interior design for each home or each office, right. So we were right, I think at that time we’re at the moment of, you know, the tech boom. So a lot of tech companies are actually using our services. Because they just get funding, building new office etc, so those are the trend at that time. So I exited the company in 2018. We are required by a B2B marketplace, which is existed until today. I think they’re going to become a Unicorn soon, but I think it’s been, I think the company been around for like almost 8 to 9 years.
So we are acquired. I joined the team as part of the Fintech as an initiative in the company because we find out that you know, to deal with a lot of like small businesses like MSME (Ministry of Micro, Small & Medium Enterprise) because like in what I do previously in my first startup, the name of the startup is called Lapasar.com, so we did deal a lot with MSME especially on the wood craftsmanship, right. So, the biggest problem with them is actually financing problem. For example, if we order a big amount, then they usually cannot keep up with the financing, right? They usually asking for those payments or you know they cannot hire more people because the cash flow is not enough for them to cover all the costs. So that’s why when I joined the B2B marketplace as we are being acquired, we focus on creating value for this small businesses, right? So, we’re creating a blockchain project to help sort of like creating a credit scoring, put it on blockchain, & you know, get financial institution and the small business by looking at their credit scoring. Those are the things that we did. That was 2018 in transition to 2019. The company, the project name is Tokoin.io, which is still exists. The focus is always about DeFi and also payments. If you look at Tokoin.io, you can see the White Paper or we really focus on DeFi. We really focus on our payments infrastructure because we want to try to make people mainstream, especially in this region. By doing that from 2019 up to like last year.
Then this year, I span off out of the group to become a VC because the goal is actually to help the ecosystem in the region, especially on the crypto projects, Web3 spaces with the experience that I have in building the first startup & also building Web3 startups and you know still using the ecosystem and the expertise from Tokoin and then trying to build the ecosystem around Southeast Asia and try to help each project to actually grow and scale, especially in the new market; maybe Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and you know all the surrounding countries in Southeast Asia because that is the…. I’m not going to say the expertise, but it’s more like the knowledge that we gain during those during those like three years from like early 2019 to like at least early this year. So yeah that is my background.
Our VC name is OFU VENTURE. Again, it’s not the F word, but OFU means from a Latin language, it means we would like to bring/ build a strong ecosystem for Web3 projects across Southeast Asia. We launched this year and we will be announcing a couple updates and also a couple announcement in partnership soon. Probably before the end of 2022 because next year will probably focus a lot on deploying our fund and also working closely with other projects. That is a bit of the background from the start until today. I hope it’s not too long, hopefully everybody can understand what I was explaining and I was informing.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Well, that’s a very impressive, remarkable journey from an entrepreneur & of course to a VC right now. It’s true that they say to become a venture capitalist, it’s always important that you really need to roll up the sleeves as an entrepreneur, as a founder to really just understand how to run a business, and of course to get your business to be acquired. Then finally they become a venture capitalist to really give back to the ecosystem and honestly Eddy, I couldn’t agree more with you that truly, I mean of course is how we have seen the Web2 have really escalated & skyrocket to a whole new level in just by 2025, the entire Web2 space will be worth USD50 billion, & of course all the way up to USD1 trillion. With that, I think that’s going to transcend to the Web3 and I truly believe that Southeast Asia is going to be poised as the gateways of Web3 in this entire universe.
Today we will be speaking more of your VC life that today’s topic is rather quite interesting. I mean, it was rather very sharp and bold. Basically when I pick this title “NO BULLSH*T PITCH”, this title was really inspired when I was just reading. I think probably I’m not sure whether you even realize this that you wrote that in your profile. Well, it’s written this way that “my leadership style is detail oriented, direct and hands on. I hate Bullsh*t so I’ll tell you the hard fact that you don’t like to hear” and honestly, I couldn’t agree more. I took that. maybe I had selective side, I took that and became part of my inspirations for today’s topic and I truly love that very much as well. So I think I want to start off by asking you, What’s really a Bullsh*t Pitch to you then?
SPECIAL GUEST: EDDY CHRISTIAN NG, Partner of OFU Ventures
Wow yeah, you pointed out that way. I don’t even remember.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
You don’t even remember this right?
Yeah, I don’t. That was my LinkedIn profile right.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Absolutely! Absolutely!
SPECIAL GUEST: EDDY CHRISTIAN NG, Partner of OFU Ventures
I think I wrote this last year. I think I believe I wrote it last year when you know, during the pandemic. Because I was working from home and I tried to get my profile being recognized. So, I think I need to be out-of-the-box, right?
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Well, to be honest when I first read it, honestly I chuckled & burst into laughter because I saw the fun part of you in Bali. It was really quite hard for me to connect, but I guess I would personally like to know as well, & probably the live viewers too, what is really a Bullsh*t Pitch to you then.
Sure, sure. I think the background story about that line is actually, I think I remember back in the days, I think even when I started my first company, the mindset is always about living a good life as a founder, & you know closing fundraising round. I remember back in the days in 2015 when we first started. What drove me at that time is actually reading Tech In Asia a lot. During that moment I remember like every three days or even like every days there’s a new announcement of funding round. Again, being a very early founder or being a newbie founder, I was thinking oh it’s so easy to at least raise like $300K to $500K at that time, which is pretty much the lucky number. So you can raise $100K easily pre-product right. Uhm, then I learned it the hard way as a founder, fundraising through pitching to 30 investors, knowing each one of them what they’re looking for, what data that they are asking, all the questions those kind of things. I think 30 to 40 at that time when I tried to raise our second round or something like that after the seed round. For me I think no bullsh*t meaning that, again when I pitched back in the days to those 34 or 40 VCs, I would say I bullsh*tted a lot also right. Bullsh*t meaning that you create a story that is not there, right? The worst part is I cannot bullsh*t so I was very noobie at that time, so I’m not good at telling story, I speak too fast, so most of the time everything that I sugarcoat it doesn’t make sense. Every time I sugarcoat, every time I bullsh*tted, you probably can spot it on. Then from there I learn it the hard way, learning to build the company here in there right, hustle, then learn how to tell a good story, how to position myself as a founder, position the company, & building relationships with investors.
Then comes 2019-2020, 2021 where I built a lot. I was also helping a local corporate VC to do like a lot of deal sourcing and stuff. I remember I was going through at least 15 startups every week? 15 yeah, I think around 15 by myself. I need to read the pitch, the deck and talking to the founders and stuff. Again, what I found is, a lot of founders are trying to create a story that is not there. That means bullsh*t, right? That means nothing is there, you know, sometimes I would say a lot of founders are hallucinate a lot? Means that yeah, market is big, blah blah blah. I would like to reach this and there and the evaluation is like skyrocketed, It’s very high, for a seed/ startup. Then it becomes tiring to see a lot of those founders where they don’t understand the fundamental of building a company and definitely how to build the valuation around company, which is, you need to actually get economics to support your valuation or else the rest will be useless and bullsh*t. That’s why I think for me, no bullsh*t meaning that you stay true with what you believe and what you build, right? Yeah, you can always create a good story which is everybody loved to hear anyway, but again it does need to be make sense.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
I really like the fact that you mentioned about you need the economic value to really determine the valuation. I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes among founders & entrepreneurs. For sure one thing Eddy you definitely unable to play poker, so please don’t ever try to play poker since you can’t bullsh*t because I don’t play poker so I can’t bullsh*t.
I did play poker before and then I won the night. I think it’s really good for me.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
I thought you are going to tell me that you lose money. I mean, I for sure unable to play poker. I remembered the last time I tried to play with one of my team members and I just lost my 100 bucks just like this and of course it is USDT right, it was just so easy to transfer. So I swear to God I will never going to play poker ever since then.
We’re still in the context of bullsh*t. I mean I really want to come to this, I mean this topic is No Bullsh*t Pitch, founder tends to…. What if I tweak that from bullsh*t to become a slight exaggeration because founders tend to be a good storyteller, a majority, they have a good gift of gap and probably you know there are few founders right now in the house here, to what extent that a founder able to amplified or bullsh*t a little bit more in order for the bullsh*t not to be smell by the investor?
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I think right, especially as a VC or as an investor; even like you know, if you’re not a VC, but you’re an investor like Angel investor or something like that, the first thing you need to have is actually you are not easily in love with something. That is the rule of thumb as an investor because if you are easily in love with something, then you will probably like investing in any kind of startup that tell a good story.
I came across with one startup from Europe this year, it’s about betting platform using blockchain. So I think yeah, you know who doesn’t love gambling, right? I think it’s a good thing to use blockchain and stuff blah blah blah. I think it’s actually good start-up but the one that sort of like raising a red flag for me is they don’t have a product yet so it’s a pre-product & another red flag is the team is a super team. We got this from here, we got this COO from this company joining us and blah blah blah as our CFO all this thing. Then, it rings a bell in my head, right? This is too good to be true, then why would everyone with a stable work joining a startup which is a pre-product and I don’t know, it still doesn’t have any traction or anything. On top of my head is either this one is going to scam people or what right? So I said, yeah, OK. It’s good, let me know what is your updates blah blah blah and then, yeah, we don’t really in contact anymore. They don’t reach me out so I don’t really reach them out.
In comparison to somebody also that I follow from April 2022 until today, which is before Token 2049, I was talking to them. I reached them out because I love the ideas. Basically they do tokenizing assets for like property, so like you know, apartment buildings, office building, they try to fractionize those property and selling the token right. Because I like the idea and the founders are like you know, one was a banker in the UK and the other one is, I think a tech guy & they both used to live in Australia. I think right now they reside in Vietnam or because they are Vietnamese right. Then I reach them out. I think before Token 2049 like three weeks ago or a month. I would like to hear what they have been developed, what is the updates. This is something that I think it’s good for all the founders, right?
So, what they said is: “OK, we’re not trying to do fundraising right now. We’re probably going to do bootstrapping, so we’re going to bootstrap. We’re going to focus on building our used cases because I think we still have money in our bank, so we’re going to focus building the used cases using the technology, acquiring the property, and trying to fraction the property. Right now we have certain amount of property that we are fractioning and then trying to build used cases on top of that, probably until next year. So we’re not going to focus on the fundraising.
I think that’s sort of like bring me/ give me more confident if I want to invest in this startup because one thing that they’re looking for is actually not the money, right? They’re looking for the used cases, they’re looking for building the technology, they’re looking for building the team and again if you hear what I’m saying, they DO NOT BULLSH*T YOU right? They said like you know we have four apartment buildings that we are doing right now. Then we’ll, you know, try to build the tokenize on top of it, and probably like you know we’re going to update you after that. I think those are the two examples that I can share with you guys. Looking at, you know, sort of like a slight exaggeration where sometimes it’s good to have because again, as a founder, you need to sell the dreams right? But then if the dreams cannot be achieved or if it’s too vague then most of the time it doesn’t make sense.THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Super powerful super amazing! I love the fact that where when you talk about having a solid team, a team of superstar, that where every team members will able to complement each other and of course experience matters a lot. That’s one. Having product with traction & of course most importantly is without having to rush to really think about capital raising as means of for survivorship of the company but really just trying to improve the technology, to really just trying to solidify the team & of course to raise money at the right time in the market as well. I think this is where you probably will probably, so you have even soft heart failure for such companies like that, because when the priorities is not just looking for funding, but to tell you off like indirectly on your face to say that you know, hang on/ hold on your horse, give us time to polish up our traction and we’ll come back to you. This is definitely such a more momentous, something unforgettable for you rather than the companies where all they do is just trying to capital raise from you right and you could smell it.
That’s why like I think, the company is still on my pipeline. I think until today.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Amazing! Amazing! & of course the next round, probably in three months down the road/ six months down the road, I’m sure when once they come with a much more better traction, probably yeah, I guess that’s where you probably able to write the cheque to them even without having second thought then. Am I right?
Yeah definitely, definitely! I think it is good for a VC as well, in terms of you know, having a good portfolio company where actually the founder can actually work and build the technology and the startups right. Yeah, I think those are the things which is what we’re looking for.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
There’s one thing that I probably just wanted to really just add on. I think a lot of new founders are probably maybe newbies in entrepreneur. Too often they always think that capital raising is a very easy task, and what’s even worse, probably even to the younger founders, or even to the inexperienced entrepreneurs, that really was jumping on the bandwagon and thinking that, oh, capital raising is going to be easy because it’s after reading Tech in Asia. I mean honestly, I would never forget the moment from 2010 to 2015. You know, for you to have any single business idea and you could just raise money effortlessly. I can remember that moment and honestly I will be guilty as charged, it was one of the reasons why I started building up my own startup because I really thought that I was a great incredible investment advisors when I was representing the largest IFA company over back in Singapore. Little did I realize when you actually go through capital raisings on your own for your own company, honestly it is going to be really pain and the amount of sleepless night and emotions, that the roller coaster of emotions that drive you. I could still remember there are nights where I slept with cold and thinking just how to improve and you starting having self-doubts with yourself and can you imagine that I thought that I was a great fundraiser but I remember that the very first time when I raised money, I sent 213 emails and I could still remember these number vividly, I did 46 pitches, which means my 47 investors were only invested in me, and that’s not even a lot Eddie. That was only $250,000 for somebody who used to managed USD25 million. That’s like what?
I really want to really send this message to all new founders out there or whoever pick up this podcast itself in one fine day. What would be the best little piece of advice to all these young and new founders/ entrepreneurs out there? Would you advise them to really build a great traction and go to the investor or the investor will come knocking on your door. So, would you agree with me that having a sustainable business model before exercising capital raising is important and why?
I think uhm, again right, why a lot of young/ new founders are actually thinking that fundraising is easy because we’ve been feed with all those information, and if you read the news is always about, I don’t know. Now I think is about like startups closing down right. Probably like you know, two years, three years ago, or even like you know, back in 2015/ 2016, I think the news is all about fundraising. It’s all but hey, this one close this deal; this one close that deal and stuff right? So that’s why I think because of that story, because of all those information that keep coming to our head, as a new/ young founder we’re thinking that fundraising is easy. But then when you actually went through it, I think it’s not as easy as the news. The news is just one part of the fundraising. Even I remember like you know my mentor, my angel investor always told me “You know fundraising is just one thing. Yes, after closing the deal after the money coming to your bank account, you can be happy you can celebrate? It’s only for one or two days because stop that euphoria because the next thing is, it comes the responsibility, right? It comes the projection, the growth projection that you presented to the investor, you need to achieve that or else like you know, you probably cannot raise the next round or even your investor will lose confident towards you, right?”
So that is always the thing that I hold as a principle that you know closing a deal is one thing. Stop that euphoria and focusing again on building the work, building the product, building the traction. At the end of day we’re building a company. We’re not trying to hit the jackpot right. I think you probably get a bigger chance if you do a slot machine probably in MBS right in comparison to like building a startup to be successful. Honestly speaking, right?
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
I always say that the start of a capital raising is when you close the deal, when you get the fund from your investor. That is basically the start of your capital raising journey. A lot of people they thought oh that’s the end and I will never forget that moment. You are so right, Eddy. I mean, I felt so, OK, you know, I gave myself a pat on the shoulder when I got my first funding for my previous startup and I’m like wow Gem of Joy. Of course I didn’t celebrate as I was too old to celebrate in a bar and a club. And then I was like I give myself a pat on the shoulder and I thought I could sleep very well that night. But guess what, you are so right, and I think I remember the idea was just watching maybe one series. I spent the whole night doing marathon on the series. And then after that it took me 24 hours to realize holyshit, now is that whatever that I promised my investor, every dollar my investors has told me I need to make back two dollar, three dollar, it’s 2x 3x you know. & that reputation, you have built that because essentially investor investing is not because of the business or your product or what. I mean that comes secondary. But because they like you they trust you and the trust can’t be taken away, and I think that’s so important!
That is the story that I experienced as well in 2019 when Tokoin get listed on Kucoin. We get listed on Kucoin I think at 9:00PM Indonesian time at that time. I remember we stay in the office opening the chart, looking at when they get listed right. After we get listed, the price went up 7x and then you know it’s stabilized, is stabilized for like about 5x to 6x. Then we went home because that was Friday night, the next day is holiday as we don’t work on Saturday. So, I think I had a good night sleep and Saturday wake up also had a very good weekend. But you know, after that, like Monday is work right? Because now you are listed already, then you need to focus on building the product, you need to deliver to your investor because we have retail investor we have private investor all of these, an institution investor as well. So I think that was the feeling that I experienced in 2019. You only have 24 hours to 48 hours of good sleep. Then the next thing is you need to focus on work right. So yeah.
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THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Yeah super super! Yeah I guess it’s really every founder just got to go through that kind of emotions turmoil/ emotions rollercoaster when you exercise the capital raising and after when you succeed in capital raising, honestly it’s such a humbling moment & yet at the same time it shapes you to become a better person. However, the journey is never easy.
I think you mentioned just now being a venture capitalist you cannot love everything and this is so true. Sometimes and because of course right now I’m playing the hat also as a venture builder and one of our arms in Metapac is to be investing in projects and I will tell you very, very frankly, I’ve soft spot for people inside, but please don’t use that as my advantage. I have soft spot when people tell me that their entrepreneurship journey and of course their life and of course it’s easier said than done. It has to be very logical instead of using emotions at the same time. That’s where I think I believe I probably need my partners, my team members to also tell me that hey, you don’t get too carried away with how A-star team, how incredible their business idea is, the scalability and all you know, it still goes down with the numbers and it goes down to whether how much bullsh*t that the founder says. I want to dive in talking about the psychologies of investor/ how a VC think. If you are too driven there by the team, the team is A-Star and has such a huge potential for scalability that will happen, you love the business idea, you love the business concept very much, and of course you are so immerse yourself into the space that you have always liking. Say for example you are a foodie and you love that how blockchain is going to be disrupting food industry. How would you make a comparison between logic and also emotion investing? What’s your point of view this?
I think again right from a VC point of view, VC is not… I’m going to state it right away. I think VC is not an investor. VC’s business model is actually making deals because at the end of day we need to give a return on investment to our, you know investor or LP right? So I think the bottom line of becoming a VC is actually making the best deal, making the best deal for our LP right, making the best deal for our investors. Speaking about you know using logic and emotion, I think I would prefer using logic because it correlate to how you can get the best deal and also the ROI for your investor. However, on the emotional side, I think sometimes again right you mentioned in the beginning you cannot easily carried away towards something. I would spend more time if I really love the space, if I really love the team because we are investing in the team and also the founders, right? We don’t invest in percent in the company, especially on the early stage. We’re looking at the founders; we’re looking at the ideas; we’re looking at, you know, the potential of the company, how they can grow right? Then I will spend more time. I would definitely spend more time with the team and founders and even without investing. But I would give out my energy, what else? My value, spending with them right where I can try to sort of like build the connection. I think that’s the thing that I would do & if I’m sure about it, then we can invest because at the end of the day, the VC business model is making the right deal, making the best deal for our investor.
I think for me as a as a founder background VC, I would really love to actually helping startups grow. I would really love to point out, specially for founders that you know, hey, don’t do this don’t do that. Don’t cross that way because I already passed that right because I experienced things that they probably do not experience before. So, I can tell them hey, don’t step on that stone because you will fall down or something like that. That’s the part that I love dealing with founders because I was a founder before. I learned everything by myself of course I have mentored back in the days, even until today. Again I tend to learn faster by doing it so that’s why I do this, do that and then I learned it the hard way. I love doing a lot of, you know, sort of like coaching with founders because at the end of the day, we need to help founders grow. We don’t just bring money in and you know as spray and pray, right? I think a lot of VCs are the type of like you know spray and pray, give you $300K/ $500K then go figure it out. If you want to fundraise then let me know right or if your money is out, then you let me know how it can fundraise again. I think learning from that past experience, I do not want to become that kind of VC. I would like to become a VC that you know, I can bring in the expertise, I can bring in the value, I can bring in the things that I can provide even without investing, I’m OK with that. Spending time at least you know I can help the founders. Then you know the logic comes in right, the ROI comes in. I think that is the approach that I do if you ask me to pick between logic and also emotion.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Super powerful! Super powerful! Love everything that you say. I can totally resonate that every single word that you utter.
My dear friends, once again, VCs are not investor; they are looking for the best deals for the limited partner and I think it’s just so important to really understand that as a founder, as an entrepreneur, we have to be pitching by putting on the cap as a VC where we do a pitch. Too often, founders and entrepreneurs, what they want? They are blindsided by doing the pitch and try to imagine themselves as an entrepreneur and tries to dig as much money as possible from the VC, but they have forgotten that VCs are not the investor because they have to be credible, they have to be accountable to their own investor which is their LP. That was so powerful and I love the second thing, I really want to dive in loving what you say just now as an entrepreneur, love to do everything you mentioned somewhere along this line. Love to do everything because by doing everything you get to be involved the whole entire process and by getting involved in the process that’s where you’re able to take that part of that journey to empower the next generation of entrepreneurs, and I’m truly a big believer in that. And of course, we will failed along the way and by failing along the way, it’s also failed fast, succeed faster at the same time.
Exactly
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Love that! Wow that’s so powerful! I will come to the part then you did mention talking about empowering entrepreneurs. I guess this is the part that you deal with so many different types of entrepreneurs, and of course if you go to the personality test, entrepreneurs are too often, I think I remember I read it somewhere, I think about… Don’t quote me, quote the un-quote. That is about probably 68% entrepreneurs are very hardheaded, very argumentative, very opinionated, very dominant of course. You deal with so many different types of entrepreneurs right? I remember this saying before and of course I have stream of mentor, & guilty as charge, I know one mentor said before: “You see. I remember I told you that right and yet Arthur, you still did that itself”. You know, I remember that it was a great advice by my mentor. And then after that, as an entrepreneur we still have to go through it and then to realize oh yeah, that didn’t work and going back to your mentor and say that I’m sorry, I screwed up.
Now you deal with so many different types of personality of entrepreneurs. What was the toughest portfolio/ company experience or even founder experience you went through and how do you overcome that? I would really want to pluck your brain juice on that.
OK. OK. I think giving a background also, when I was a founder I think I was in that shoes as well right.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
So, we all did that. OK, now you’re not making me feel so guilty then.
I think, I don’t know. I think every founder especially guy, I mean we tend to be hardheaded for sure. Again, back in the days when I was running my first startup, I think I experience also, my mental telling me this, I don’t follow, I do other thing or you know even our investor or VC at that time also just shut me off. You know I don’t like your ideas; you know experiment too much and blah blah blah right. That’s the part that I learn also! You need to keep calm and do not be reactive. I think, again my startup journey has taught me a lot because back in the days I was very emotional; I can you know turn around tables and stuff and I was running my first startup but then I learnt not to be emotional. You need to keep calm, don’t panic. That’s why I think that built me until today. Don’t panic, keep calm. Don’t be reactive because most people, the basic instinct is if some challenge happened to you, then the basic instinct is always being reactive, right? You can become reactive in a good way or in a bad way, but there’s a learning that I went through where you know, be calm & take your time and think it straight.
So, I think I experience a founder where I pointed out about….. Because I was… I’m very detailed, that’s how I learn. Things that I would like to process in my head have to be detailed. Let’s say if you run a campaign then this is for Web3 company because we do a lot of campaigns; for Web2 company we also do a lot of campaigns. Marketing is all about campaigns right. That’s why like when founders running a campaign or the company running a campaign, I always ask about you know, have you tried before? Have you tried to do it before in your team like I’m trying to put up the idea like, you know, try it before you launch it to the public right. You need to do that or else like you don’t know like what the public is going to react, right? So I’m very detailed. I ask everything. Now, some founders or some company do not like me to point out those details because it means for them is I’m looking for their mistake. I said no. I’m not trying to look for a mistake. I’m trying to point out details so that you can do the right thing. If you don’t like it then it’s OK. Go do it yourself then don’t come back to me. That’s what I do because again, I’m not a school principal where I need to discipline everyone, everyone has to follow me. No! Because everybody is adult right. You want to be treated as an adult, then act like an adult. If you don’t want to be treated as an adult, then we do it the other way. We do it like, you know, school principal way. That’s why like all the founders, all of the entrepreneurs that I met, of course mixed of it. Some they follow; some they don’t; some they get mad because of those small details that I’m usually looking for. Yeah for me at the end of the day it all goes back to you. If you cannot succeed then I already told you so, you are an adult. If you see the value then you will do it anyway. That’s how I learned in the past. My mentor always tell me the good direction. If I don’t follow, I fall down then move on right, get up and move on. Then you learn. So that’s the approach that I also use on my VC journey. Hence, if you don’t want to listen to me, it’s fine it’s OK. When you fall don’t come crawl to me!
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Well. I think that’s really such an amazing advice. I think to all founders who are listening over there, always leave your ego hat at the front door. I think too often it’s the ego and pride of an entrepreneur and a founder are unable to take it and too often they think they are being pinpointed for every single detail. The more detail of an investor is asking, they feel they’re being challenges by them. & honestly, it takes really such a… Again, I have to emphasize this, it takes really so much of a character, of the right mindset of an entrepreneur to really succeed in a capital raising. I will never forget this: “the one thing/ the greatest values of capital raising, it has shaped me to become a better person; It has humble me so much; it has makes me see things where I have never possibly seeing because of that series of failures or rejections, it really pushes you to the rock bottom.”
I think the hardest journey of my life is actually doing startup. Honestly, I never been, I’ve never been really, really challenged right. I cannot sleep over the weekend. I remember back in the days in 2015 when we launched the first startup, I cannot sleep on the weekend. Even like my investor asked me questions on the weekend, I need to work on those strategy, go to market and stuff. So back in the days in 2015. So yeah.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Eddy, but there is the problem with startup which it really gets into you as well. As much as, as tough as it is, too often it’s very infectious at the same time. I told myself I would never be in a startup in my whole entire life after my last startup.
I think it’s very infectious because I think becoming a startup founders, honestly this is what I experience. You cannot go back to a professional life anymore. Somehow I don’t, that’s how I feel. If I would have to like apply a job and working probably in a bank again or even like multinational company, I would maybe not going to do it anymore. Because our mind has changed. The mindset has changed; the experience have taught us a lot; We are shaped to become a new person. We are probably like more… you know in terms of speed we are faster; in terms of the way we think, we always find the solution right. It’s definitely different. I’m not saying that we are very exclusive, but it’s definitely different. That’s how I feel.
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THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group Yep amazing yeah. Well. We are really short of time, we have just 2 minutes for wrapping up before my Chief of People will start haunting me on message. I would just like to really ends this session by asking you one final question. Well basically I guess this is also for, in the events of those personal interests for some people, how do you typically source out great deals at this juncture right now?
OK, I think at the end of the day, sourcing a good deal is…. Here is what I should say: at the end of the day you work like… I usually work closely with everyone around me. Other investors, other VCs, close friends in the space. So that’s how I source out my deal because I don’t believe in somebody reach me out through LinkedIn; somebody reach me out sending me a cold e-mail or even doing like you know filtering 400 or 500 startups doing like acceleration/ incubator or something like that. I don’t believe in those model because you definitely do a lot of work which probably with sh*tty startup coming into you. Sorry I need to say this because I experienced this before. I was helping an accelerator back in 2021, the corporate VC that from local conglomerate that I told before. We filtered out about like you know, our team actually filter out, not myself, but we filtered out about like 400/ 500 startups every month or even more than that. But again, the quality is bad. At the end of the day you cannot invest in the company, so that’s why I believe in referrals. You get referred by friends; you get referred by other investor or the investors are looking at it already. You go to an event and you meet with the right founders, then you build the relationship you keep following up this kind of thing right.
That’s why I think for me, deals sourcing is definitely working closely with other Investor, co-investing with others, that’s how I do deal sourcing & definitely, you know, through my close friends close acquaintance, I think that’s more important for me because it gives you the concept of commitment & also like you know, also definitely a relationship. Because you don’t get strangers from your friend right. Usually, you have a relationship with your friend and your friend has other friend or have like you know close acquaintance that do a project, then they introduce to you. That’s why like I don’t really reply all these people that message me on LinkedIn. Even like I got a message from somebody introducing their friend to me even I don’t know like this person. That’s funny, right? Somebody message me introducing somebody else in which I don’t even know who are they, both of them. So I was like, how should I….. Like I want to be harsh but I also don’t want to be harsh; so I choose not to reply. I think that’s my response.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
Well, I guess at the end of the day this is the part that where a lot of people don’t really see the behind the scenes of a busy life. Too often their phone is being used as a customer service, as a hotline; for people to just easily connected between each other and of course I can only imagine, & yet at the same time you have to be nice to everybody because you want to empower people; you also have to act what you preach at the same time right?
Yeah! I think to close the session, I would like to add also, sometimes the stigma that has been sticking with the image of VC in public is actually living on exquisite life; you know, very nice taking probably like business class, having good dinner and stuff. No! I would like to say that some of those, maybe some of the bigger VC, maybe they do that because they have probably like a big AUM. Then they can have a bigger management fee; then the responsibility is there. I think at the end of the day, for a VC I think a mid-size or even like an early stage VC; I think the focus is actually to do a lot of deal sourcing because we try to make a deal and we tried to reach certain level in terms of the AUM. So I think at the end of the day. Our life is always about deal sourcing and trying to make deals. It’s not about like you know, having an exquisite life; sitting there everybody comes to you. Most of the time if you sit there everybody comes to you, those are not the deal. That’s for me.
THE HOST: ARTHUR TAN, CEO of Metapac Group
It’s stunning! There you with the sage advice from Eddy Ng, OFU Venture’s Partner. Such an incredible stories and I truly enjoyed this session. Not because you’re a buddy of mine, but I could truly resonate a lot of the values, a lot of the ethos and philosophy that you have shared. Thank you so much once again for your time. It was just so incredible jumping on this podcast with you and to really disband your taught & with that being said, I hope you guys, to all the live viewers, I hope you did immensely benefited and probably will have a whole different opinions of how a VC thinks and invests, and of course, if you’re a founder, start rolling up your sleeve, start networking, be proactive, go out there because investors are not going to come to you and knocking your door no matter how great your idea is. With that being said, once again, thank you so much, Eddy for your time. Thank you so much.
On behalf of Metapac, we’d like to thank everybody for joining us. & of course, stay tuned in two week’s time. We have a next VC all the way from Singapore and stay tuned for the next one; happening every forthnightly and of course stay tuned on all the social media credentials. With that being said, once again thank you so much for your time and thanks for joining us this VC Connect and we hope to add on more values to you. With that being said, Goodnight, Good Morning or Good Evening wherever you are then.
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